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Was your ascetic journey slow and steady Jack, or did you just go for it? I think there can be an inherent danger in repressing desires without filling them with something else. Something spirit-given. Do you think it's less giving up, or more like being filled with something, making the old ways irrelevant. As in "Life in all its fullness" John 10:10. Is that maybe where the "honest" ascetism springs from, where as the other could still be a bit self-serving.

I appreciate the way you and flatcaps and fatalism have conducted this conversation. Thanks to both of you for keeping the dialogue going.

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Liam- Definitely slow and uneven. And with much backsliding. But even the backsliding taught me a lot, i.e, "oh yeah, that's why one shouldn't do that." I think of the best days with my father where we would go out to the local little league baseball field and he would hit my grounders for an hour or so. That and later my efforts at learning music. Both were a kind of proto-askesis, even if it seeks the perishable crown.

My experience with fasting, particularly here at the monastery, albeit for only 2 months is that is an emptying so that one can be filled. It isn't always easy, but I feel enlivened by eating less food. It turns out I need far less food than I thought.

I was thinking this morning about what I will call an integral hormesis. Hormesis, as you may know is, "commonly defined as a beneficial or stimulatory effect caused by exposure to low doses of an agent known to be toxic at higher doses". (from wikipedia). Too much fasting will harm you, the right amount and it enlivens you. This is probably true across various levels of our being. I am far from an expert, but this is how I am looking at askesis. We can do that across our whole life and to our benefits. With the self-caveat that extremes should be avoided.

I am also thankful for the conversation with Flatcaps and Fatalism. I am hoping we will respond to this post. We shall see.

I hope all is well. -Jack

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Thanks Jack. I'm good. Just traipsing through the desert, trying to figure out what's what. Hope you're well too. That's weird you mention hormesis (although I didn't know that was what it was called) because I've been thinking about that this week too. How a bit of arsenic is supposed to have health benefits. I was wondering if a little bit of sin might be good for you. When I'm sitting in silence and my simple day floods back, it's the little sinful moments I remember that help to keep me humble. I don't think I'm going to start reminding myself if I haven't sinned today, (although I think somebody might get rich from that idea if they wrote a self-help book!) it's just the stuff that seeps out of the unconcious. I think it's pretty essential to acknowledge and move on. Very interesting to hear about your experiences of fasting too. "Emptying so that one can be filled". Lovely. Makes a lot of sense.

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Are you familiar with the Ignatian examen? It can be quite rigourous, but its essence is gold. "I think it's pretty essential to acknowledge and move on." Yes, sir! Gold!

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Hi Crooked Nose, thanks very much for this. I've just watched a little video on the Ignatian examen and it is definitely something I'll try. Some of it seemed to be bubbling up in the silence anyway, but it's really helpful to learn a practice.

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You are very much welcome. I could see an Ignation examen element to what you were describing already, as you have noted yourself, so, if the shoe fits, as they say!

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"I think there can be an inherent danger in repressing desires without filling them with something else." I see much good in this statement, Liam. If we empty our buckets, they must be filled with something, even if that something is emptiness itself while the bucket is filled, drip by drip, by the Holy Spirit, and through the Dark Night, the presence of the Father Himself.

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Liam, I just wrote a reply to Naomi that tells about my sister. She was extremely ill and it was in some way, as best we can understand it, from a sort of "dishonest" asceticism. I just thought of it this morning as it relates to this converstion.

CLara

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Hi Jack, I like the title. Did you ever read Mark Boyle's book, The Way Home? He says he doesn't mind being a hypocrite (because people point out details of his life that are not primitive enough)-- and his lifestyle is far more authentic than we could ever aspire to. He also says that he likes to think of a spectrum between comfort and aliveness... the more comfort the less alive and so on. I have been realizing how much of a hypocrite I am. I have in many ways escaped the worst of the machine but am still swimming in it. Stuck in traffic the other day I felt so revolted and so depressed by the highway and the long lines of shiny vehicles, but there I was part of it all, adding to the congestion.

I am doing what I can over here in my corner. Waiting on the rest of the family to grow as ready as I am for a move to the country, little by little I feel the ship turning. You are right about property taxes... they are awful! Even in rural Maine they are 3,000 or 4,000 per year on some of the farms. Cheaper in West Virginia but then you never know if the mountain you live on will be torn open and your well polluted by mining chemicals. I wonder how Mark Boyle pays his taxes?.... must be by the writing. You could do that, I'll bet. I love the footnotes thing, that is your own unique style, making the footnotes almost as meaty as the essay. Thanks for writing and sharing your journey here. I look forward to hearing where you are led.

Clara

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The Way Home is a great book Clara. It's provided me with much inspiration. I think rural living is much more affordable here in Ireland; if you are prepared to live simply. Finding employment may be a bit more tricky unless you have your own niche like Mark Boyle. Having said that there is a kind of gift economy here, where neighbours help each other out. I think it helps if you have family connections to the area. I was very lucky to have met my husband who's family stretch back generations....I'm still a 'blow-in' though! Only the other day I came to my front door to find a lovely bag of home-grown carrots from the neighbours above us. I left them eggs the week before; it's been this way since we moved in. I feel this is the way it should be and it fills me with such gratitude and a desire to reciprocate. I think the further we move away from the Machine’s capitalism the more the true nature of humans is allowed to manifest.

You're right about Jack's writing style...I was very impressed with the details relating to the health implications of sitting....you'd be a fine candidate for my course Jack ;-)

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Naomi- I could very well be accused of idealizing Ireland. It is an occupational hazard of being an Irish-American. Guilty as charged, I say. But what you describe here is exactly what I mean. It's been a long while since I have been back but there was such a basic kindness and graciousness in the Irish. It was a big contrast to growing up in America, particularly on the east coast as I did.. The Irish even tolerate the likes of me trying horn in on their culture. Above and beyond! I hope to get back there before I shuffle off the mortal coil. We shall see. I hope you are having a lovely day. -Jack

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Like anywhere it's not without its faults but I am greatful every day to be here. Where do your ancestors come from in Ireland? You'll have to stop by Kerry if you visit again. The sun has been shining the past few days so I've been having too much of a good time in my garden! I hope your weekend has been just as lovely.

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The last known living Irish relative, last name Cahill, died in 1940 in Dungarvan, Co Waterford. Dungarvan is where I have spent most of my time when visiting Ireland. My father's research, however, says the Leahy's are from Kilkenny. DNA testing says generally from the Munster region. North Munster to be more exact.

I would love to do a tour of Ireland, with a stop in Kerry. I am still hoping for a Kingsnorth by Northwest festival in Connemara.

I am glad you had some sunshine in the garden. -Jack

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Also, County Cork comes up. This is consistent with family lore.

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I was there once. My sister married a man who grew up as the son of a butcher in Galway city, They decided to return to Ireland and bought a small cottage in a town called Tuam. While there my sister's health took a terrifying downturn.... her legs would sometimes refuse to move, or her whole body would become paralysed and she felt she was dying. Doctors could find nothing at all to explain it. My father informed me that I was coming and went there to try to help somehow. So it was anything but a leisure trip, going between galway city hospital and the home where her 3 children were still attending school. Her neighbors were just as you describe... bringing food, offering rides, offering tea and condoling. The scenery was like a calendar picture, all misty with stone walls and sheep or cattle. When I remember it it is like a dream. Glad that people like you and Mark are still there having a sane life.

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So sorry to hear about your sisters illness Clara. That must have been very hard on her and all your family. I hope she was able to find help.

I understand how awful it is being ill and all the tests coming back negative....I was in the same position myself until 3 years ago when a surgery finally revealed what was wrong. In some ways I believe my illness was very much a symptom of Machine life...I'm getting better now thanks to a more natural approach!

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Naomi, thank you for asking about my sister.

In reading through all the posts on here discussing asceticism and possible pitfalls associated, it occurs to me that her illness may be one of those. The doctors both in Ireland and in Boston later agreed that this neurological shut down was generated in her mind, not her body. Meaning her physical nervous system, heart, lungs, leg muscles etc were all perfectly functional. One Dr. used the term Functional Neurological Disorder and others gave it no name but said they have seen a pattern where a certain personality type that is extremely self-effacing can have this response. My sister was the kind to "suck it up" and not complain, not ask for her own preferences, and work all day without a break. It turns out her marriage was pretty awful in some ways but she smoothed everything over and no one knew. So they say that this caused a splitting between her brain and her body -- the body said, "No more!, I'm hurting" while the brain tried to tell the body to move and it simply didn't get the message during these spells of hers. She has found relief by carefully caring for herself, limiting stress and exertion, eating very healthy, but it can still flare up especially at the end of the day with tiredness.

I think this directly relates to what Liam is talking about in his comments. It matters very much where our ascetic acts are rooted. We cannot force them. We cannot be other than what we are without repercussions. What we seek is to authentically be.

Clara

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"It matters very much where our ascetic acts are rooted. We cannot force them. We cannot be other than what we are without repercussions. What we seek is to authentically be."

How very beautifully put Clara. Thank you for sharing your sisters story. I totally agree with what you are saying. I resisted Machine life for many years. Choosing to play music /write songs and do bits of work to get by. However when the recession hit I was left in a bad spot and moved from the UK to Australia where my sister was living. I had to get a work visa to stay and ended up having to get a 'serious' job which took me away from writing and playing. Not only that but my diet and lifestyle were affected by long hours too. I ended up with Endometriosis. I think we're taught to ignore our gifts (and who we really are) unless they are marketable and it puts such a strain on us when we have to given them up...not to mention the lifestyle that machine culture fosters. I'm studying Naturopathy at the moment; I'm really enjoying it but all the science points to an ascetic way of life tied to the rhythms of the planet. I often wonder if all the science I'm learning was long ago understood without laboratory trials and technology!

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Naomi- I think you and Clara might have summed this all up the best with these two comments. Thank you both. -Jack

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There is a danger of much harm if we cannot fulfill vocation in our lives, as shown by your experiences, Naomi.

Even avocations and hobbies are important:

avocation as a necessary activity for wellness which is not vocation; there may be several of these.

The same goes for hobbies - they do not feed in the same way, but are nonetheless important.

The Baron von Hugel and Evelyn Underhill (lay spiritual directors of the 20th Century) are excellent on this. Both implore "non-religious" activities as part of a religious rule, or rhythm of life.

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There is an old story of scientists climbing up a steep mountain cliff, struggling mightily. One day, they find their way to the top. They are the happiest they have ever been. As they begin exploring the mountain top, however, they see monks and nuns of all stripes, creeds, traditions, and types deep in meditation, contemplation, nirvana, oneness, and ecstasy.

Now, this is an old story. I don't remember where I heard it from. What might be the implications of such? Where is the good, where the limitations?

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Hi Clara, so sorry to hear about your sister's health troubles. I'm glad she is looking after herself better now.

Thanks for making this connection. Do you think it might relate to what flatcaps and fatalism meant when he called Jack an "honest" ascetic too. Jack's experiences with fasting seem to point to this. They are unshowy changes, supported by a community and they bear fruit. I think they succeed because of where they are "rooted" like you say.

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It occurred to me that someone suffering from anorexia would a kind of disconnected, unhealthy ascetic. Which sets in relief what a positive form is. It needs to be done slowly and in moderation. There needs to be times when it is lifted. It should be done in community with wise guidance.

It is no surprise that the comments have eventually gone in the direction of pointing this out. This is a very good thing, and something one must always keep in mind.

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It seems as if most things are better when rooted in community, as long as that community is moderately healthy and not cult-like.

Clara's story hammers home for me the importance of uniting body and soul. I have been taught to understand the body and the Old Adam to mean ego and inordinate attachment to the sensual, not the body itself.

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oh, one more thing. How about visiting Metanoia of Vermont? If I were footloose and fancyfree I'd go there to see and feel what they have begun. Just an idea.

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Clara- This is a great idea. I have thought about making a tour and visiting lay monastic communities and families. I think that could be good and useful. -Jack

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Hello Clara and Jack,

I just read this post and saw this comment. Yes, you are both most welcome to come for a visit! If such a trip seems right, reach out to us at markandlisa@metanoiavt.com

Peace,

Mark

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Mark- Thank you for the invitation. I would like to come for a visit. I am now out in the wilds of the Mountain West, so if I could come, it wouldn't be anytime soon. I hope all is well with you. -Jack

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Might there also be local lay contemplative orders, or other people of similar mindset, to turn to? I am part of a lay contemplative order for men, but there is a sister order for women. There are chapters all over North America. If the country be your vocation, may God be with you, this may yet be a balm to your wounds in the meantime.

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Clara- I have yet to read The Way Home. You are not the only one to recommend it. Usually I take it as a sign when completely separate people in my life recommend the same book. On to the list it goes!! I do think there is something to the debilitating effects of comfort. If we are not careful our comforts dull us, shut us off and may even ruin us. My short time with fasting here is that it wakes me up, energizes and enlivens. Which I was not expecting. Not that it is always easy. But that's the point.

I am glad to hear you and the family are edging closer to making the leap to a farm. I am praying for you all! There is something in the air, I think. Or is it that am I just now only picking up on it?

As for the footnotes, that is a product of my earlier drafts. I tend to get bogged down in blind alleys and tangents. So, as things get a bit clearer I put some of those sidetracks in the footnotes. I am glad you find them interesting.

It is a beautiful day here at the monastery. I hope it is beautiful in your patch of ground as well.

-Jack

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One little 'way out' with property taxes here in Vermont is that there's a significant property tax break if you are low income - which we most definitely are! We still have to pay quite a bit to have the 'right' to stay on 'our' land - but it's much less than the amount on the books. Maine and some other states might have similarly progressive tax laws.

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Mark- Have you written specifically about the use of the Rule in your community? It would be interesting to know if, and how, you have adapted it for lay purposes. -Jack

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Mark- This is interesting. I hope more people can find a way into a different kind of life due to this situation. It is an opportunity anyway. -Jack

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Its is good to be self-aware and not take at face value the motives of our actions. It is good to question ourselves. However, we can also waste time and energy on this. My teacher said, as long as we have a mind, we will always have doubts. There comes a point where we will have to take the leap of faith. This applies to doubt about our faith as well as doubt about the path we should take.

How much of your asceticism is hypocritical, how to justify your modern lifestyle while yearning to flee and be silent, is going to the desert just escapisim. All good wrestling of the soul, it will train your spiritual muscles. This second-guessing, however, can go on forever. One thing I have learned during my own struggles, is to learn how to open your heart to God as much as you can. God will show you what to do, but you must first learn to trust Him. To trust Him, it helps to know Him. To know God is the big chapter in the spiritual life.

There are many paths to this knowledge, be brave and follow your heart. I think that God is a mystery and we cannot approach it using logic and reason. We can however, get closer to God via means like love, awe, adoration, prayer, yearning, being still, emptying oneself, etc. It also helps if we re-acquaint ourselves with our soul. The soul, to me, seems to be the part of us that was built to know God. There is so little literature on the soul, and on Presence. If this appeals to you, search out these teachings. Try to feel God’s Presence as much as you can. It will help immensely.

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Amen.

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“hypocritical asceticism”

That is a great term! Sadly it’s hard to see many people doing even that much. The very idea of saying no, of depriving oneself, is anathema in our world. Worse, when a parent limits their children (avoids over-indulging them with “stuff” and distractions), the children themselves, after looking around at the surrounding culture, may see their parents as being unfair, even a bit cruel or out of touch. I raise the issue of kids because they hold the cards to the future. It will be their wisdom, or lack thereof, that will dictate the fate of nations.

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Peter- I think your concern is rightly manifested in the response here to Richard's granddaughter and the iPad. Sounds like a fairy tale!

I would venture to say that without asceticism--hypocritical or not--the enchanted world right in front of us is much more difficult to see. Maybe almost impossible. Which lends a very real urgency to counter the atrophy of man. -Jack

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As always Jack, I enjoy hearing your voice. I agree that it is a problem if the connections between people are only online. I can't, and won't, let go of the hope that connections made online will someday somehow lead to real meetings, face to face. I can live with that hope. I would like to gently challenge your assertion that the possibility to live on a plot of land, in community, is only for the rich. I would like to encourage you to nurture that vision for yourself, if it is your wish. Who knows?

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David- Thank you. I do want to be wrong about the cost of the simple life. The economic situation likely upon us may make this doable. I hope so.

Being online has its uses. If we are smart it can help prepare us. -Jack

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For encouragement: my family of five has been living 'the simple life' (ha!) in country Australia for the past ten years. We have no money to speak of and are currently on our third rental property. Yes, moving when you rely on your garden harvest and have some livestock is not easy, but in God's provision it has always worked out and we have learned much along the way. This time we are hoping to stay longer term, as we are renting very cheaply from church friends who run a working farm. Renting was not part of our original dream, but it has been God's way of making our wish for a quieter, more prayer oriented, life possible and we praise him for it! Keep presenting your requests before God, he will honour your wish to seek him, though the path to that might be different from what you imagine.

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Deb- Thank you for this. I have been meditating on Mt 6 and Lk 12. I added a quote from the latter to the end of this post, because I think it is at the core. The Lord is asking us to let go of the provision of Mammon and seek first the Kingdom and food, drink and clothing etc will be added unto us! How about that?

So it is very good to hear from you and that in your own way you are living that. I think I have to take the above verses and Acts 2:44 much more literally, i.e, "Now all who believed were together, and had all things in common."

I hope all is well with you and the simple life in Australia!

-Jack

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It seems like a sort of proto-communism, or, more rightly perhaps, a proto-socialism. I wonder where the good might be in this, and where the limitations?

Monasticism, and the Desert Fathers and Mothers before them, seem to be the closest that we have come to this ideal in Acts. What might be the good in allowing each monk and each nun some small portion of personal possession?

I would urge each and all to read Benedicta Ward, (an Anglican nun (yes, we have those again now!)) and her translation of sayings from the Desert Fathers. I do believe there are even some Mothers in there. Some insight into ascestism, contemplation, and the spiritual life in general.

:http://www.g4er.tk/books/sayings-of-the-desert-fathers.pdf

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In our area, there are many farms that aren't using their fields - as the economics of agriculture are unfortunately very bad for farmers right now.

One side effect of this is that it can be quite affordable to lease agricultural land and grow one's food without needing to own the land. I know of several successful farmers who make a living this way.

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For us it took several years and a mind shift before we were really able to accept that this is our path. We would love to own land and build something permanent! But right now God has called us to an even simpler life, were we own less and are more dependent on him. I can see now that this is absolutely to the way it had to be, for us to grow in humility and understanding of God as our provider. I initially thought we would get land, grow food and that would enable us to have time to seek God in prayer, but God said, seek me in prayer and I'll show you how I will provide.

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Through community and communal pooling of resources, it may be possible. Community, solitude, contemplation, action all in tension.

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I agree wholeheartedly. For most of us coming together and joining our abilities is the best way, if not the only way. It might be the only way.

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here is a property near to Strafford VT where Metanoia is located. They don't even show the interior of the house but the land is perfect.

https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/717-Moody-Hill-Rd_Vershire_VT_05079_M97113-44919

Maybe the price will drop in the near future....?

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I think that there is also a need for some to remain in cities, in the valley, visiting the vistas and peaks of the mountain, but descending again into the valley, as Jesus once did. Tension, balance, self-care, vocation

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While there will be many versions of what you are talking about, I think it is good to hear specifically how people are doing it, how they are leaving the kennel so to speak. But I think you are spot on. -Jack

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Discerning vocation is essential, no doubt. There is a legitimate call to the monastery, to life in the country. I do think, however, that the important thing is the transcendence of ego, no matter what the vocation. We can be proud of our ascetic practices, which is subtle spiritual pride. What are we giving things up for?

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This is spot on. There is something of a leap of faith. One can start practicing askesis without *really* knowing who are why one is giving things up. Instead it is a hope that we can find out. But like most things it is a razor's edge with pitfalls of excess and deficiency on either side. Thankfully, we are usually given many chances because failure is pretty much guaranteed. Such has been my experience. -Jack

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Thanks for continuing the conversation Jack! Sorry it has been a couple of days before I commented, but I've been away from the computer and only saw it just now. I guess this is bound to be a risk in an internet conversation between people who mistrust the medium itself!

A few barely organised thoughts:

'Only the rich can now afford the simple life' - I think it goes beyond even this. A simple life has become a status and class marker in numerous subtle ways. Natural fibres tend to be higher status than synthetics, organic food is fashionable in elite circles, and so on. The rejection of consumerism becomes repackaged as a desirable product to be consumed and Moloch sells us the dream of escaping him, cunning old schemer that he is.

The ' Atrophy of Man' section as a whole reminds me very much of Illich's diagnosis of our ills, and I would largely agree.

I like the idea of hypocritical asceticism. I've mentioned Judith Shklar in my newsletter, but I haven't really talked about one of her core insights which is that a society, to some extent, must order vices. For instance it must say things like, 'yes snobbery is bad, but cruelty is worse'. The motivation for this is the simple recognition that life is complicated, we are flawed, and often the best we can manage is to choose the lesser of two evils.

If you accept this general outline, then the vice of hypocrisy is an interesting one. In our purity-obsessed partisan political culture, it is often held up as a very terrible thing - 'this politician did not act as he said' - but that seems to me to be merely a side-effect of the simple-mindedness of the times. Not to say that hypocrisy is good; but it is a vice that generally only appears when you are at least paying lip-service to the good, given human fallibility it is close to inevitable in anyone who tries something very hard, and - most important of all - there are worse wrongs.

The little zones of freedom make me think a little of Hakim Bey's Temporary Autonomous Zones, (although with much less over-the-top flowery prose!)

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This post took longer than I had expected because I got bogged down a bit on thinking through technology as atrophy. I think of the science fiction favorite of an armored exoskeleton (DARPA has been working on one). Technology comes down to that. An increase of our will-to-power only at the expense of our own abilities. A technological civilization increase the stress required to survive in it, thus the need for various kinds of exoskeleton--usually not literally. Which only weakens our humanity. It seems inevitable to any technological civilization. Which ours has been for centuries. I am still thinking this through. Is the only way to avoid this some kind of Arsenios Option. Is it naive to think it can be avoided? Can it be avoided *anywhere* at this point?

I wasn't thinking so much about askesis in my previous post. But your response required me to think that through. I now think it is central. Overabundance is the their reward for compliance. We have been sold abundance is equivalent to freedom. It seems so natural that what won't we give up to keep it. But it is an addiction--which is never freedom, only slavery. Zhangzi knew this. The Desert Fathers knew this. Askesis broadens our range of free action. The more I can not only resist the bait, but no longer even desire it, the freer I am.

I love your idea of Moloch selling us the dream of escaping him. Right now I am in a fairly remoted location. But really it is only the far suburbs of the machine. We are effectively 100% dependent on the machine to continue. There are more than a few working ranches back in this little valley. But among the old pickup trucks, are a preponderance of luxury SUV's. Wilderness and silence are becoming luxury items, they are out here. The rest will get jammed into the cities and haunt the strip malls. Or worse yet, more will see a further mediated retreat from reality. More virtual reality (which is a demonic term, as there is no such thing as a virtual reality) not less.

So there is a lot to fathom to propose an Arsenios Option considering our current situation. Thank you for helping me do so.

And I really do need to look into Illich. I have to wonder if he thought there were non-atrophy inducing tools (of conviviality, perhaps?). Our rather, other than hypertrophic technologies, which extend as they diminish. I wonder what Iain McGilchrist would have to say about this?

Rather we need to create and allow for the Callitrophic--the turn to the beautiful-- to coin a phrase in English. A turn to that which helps create beauty in us, our culture and our physical environment . Actually, I just looked it up καλλιτροφικός means cultured in Greek. Perfect.

I hope you are well. -Jack

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Travel agencies sell us vacations as an "escape". Which reveals the game.

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This reminds me of a story that my abba told me. When he was young, he went off to the far north of Scandanavia, what is commonly know as Lapland. (The indigenous people there prefer the term Sami.) He was in pursuit of a people that had not yet fallen victim to modernity, the Machine if you will. He was perhaps inspired in part by George Grant.

In any case, even among the Sami, modernity had crept in, even in northern Lapland. He was mightily disappointed, but he did come home with a great home-made shirt that he still wears. Jokes aside, he eventually learned that modernity is not going anywhere, so it needs to be transcended as we mine the best of the past and the best of the present for answers. The contemplative to begin, then a solid marriage between action and contemplation, self and community, discernment and grace.

Rage Against the Machine signed to a major label machine, which is ironic. However, they have said that in doing so, they had invaded the machine and attempted to destroy it from the inside. If they had signed to an independent label, fewer people would have heard their music and things like this could not have happened:

https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/news/rage-against-the-machine-take-christmas-no-1-slot-1846247.html

Use the machine to transcend the machine, as we are already doing.

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On the 'can it be avoided?' question, Illich thought there was a window of opportunity in the 60-70's that closed. The speed with which his own work was digested by the Machine as a talking point that quickly fed into another round of centralised 'liberation' leads me to think that there never was a window.

He did think there were tools, and I think he thought the main one was the cultivation of genuine relationships - to abbreviate a really subtle thinker to the point where he sounds like a platitude. His reading of the Good Samaritan is very important. He stresses that the parable is not about a wishy-washy universal morality, but rather the embodied response of one physical being to another in his path. A step from the slightly abstracted morality of the era (loyalty to tribe) to something more particular, not towards something more universal. That reading turns a lot of assumptions on their head while remaining entirely orthodox as far I can see.

I think you're right about askesis, and that while the desire is there we are still on the Machine's hook. I'm pretty sure that most of us have to go through the phases of knowing what is good but desiring and running after the bad, and then knowing what is good and desiring what is bad without (at least!) chasing it before we get to that exalted spot though. At least, I hope there is some kind of such path.

It's funny you mention a turn to the beautiful. I agree it seems key, and have been meaning to write something to get my thoughts in order, but they're not quite at the point for even that.

Thanks for so much to think on.

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"a society, to some extent, must order vices." This reminds me of the classic notion of ordering desires and ideas. I don't remember exactly where it comes from, I learned it from my abba/mentor/professor, but is deeply rooted in the deep soil of the Western tradition as a whole.

Briefly, there are six orders - good, better, best; bad, worse, worst. The aim is, as individuals and as communities, to aim for the best and avoid the worst. If we cannot have the best, we aim for better, while trying to avoid the worst. Not all desires and thoughts were created equal.

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“…I was treated to a sickly-sweet detergent smell on a regular basis.”

Truly one of the banes of urban reality. I lived in a densely populated area for years, where a friend of mine called it the “stench of suburbia”. Some days you couldn’t sit in your tiny backyard without feeling like somebody was posting sticky notes to your lungs.

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Peter- The exhaust from the laundry was directly below my bedroom. It was often a challenge. Particularly in the summer when it was too hot to shut the windows. The fresh air out here in the mountains is more to my liking. Not that this should surprise anyone! -Jack

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My grandaughter wants an I Pad. Her mother thinks it's a great idea. Her father thinks it's an awful idea. Her mother does not want her to miss out on technology. Her Dad reads to her every night. She's only four years old.

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Richard- It occurs to me that you could regularly take your granddaughter to the cliffs and see the dolphins play. Or to the mouth of the Welsh river to watch the fish dance. That is you don’t already. I can’t think of a better antidote to the machine than that. -Jack

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They are staying with us at the moment, but live 180 miles away. Going home today but it's been lots of fun tbh. She told me last night before going up to bed 'Why does Grandma give me lots of jobs to do?' :))))

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Richard- The older I get the more I see the absolutely necessary role of grandparents. I am more truly thankful to mine with every passing year. -Jack

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Tell the mother to read a book called "The Shallows." I can't remember the author's name at the moment, but what I presume is the singularity of the title should make it easy to find. ( Since its publication, there have been several books by other authors which elaborate the main point made by the author of "The Shallows." )

Put simply, the Internet is dangerous. It alters neurochemistry subtly, and over time, this appears to alter the wiring of the brain, and not for the better. I'm not a developmental neurophysiologist, but based on what the man who wrote "The Shallows" presents in his book, I can't believe that such a scientist would be other than horrified by the prospect of a 4 year old's being given an ipad.

The good and the bad news is that neuroplasticity is real. It's good news for us adults that we can annihilate our off work screen time, and begin to recover the love for literature which so many of us grew up with and which, like the author of "The Shallows," many of us have beheld with dismay the withering of.

Neuroplasticity is terrible news for a 4 year old girl whose dimwitted mother thinks an ipad would be just the thing for her.

Lord, please, spare that little girl.

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The challenge is, the Internet is like a drug, and if the parents are hooked, it’s hard for them to tell their kids not to be.

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Peter- You are right. I see friends who restrict their children's access to various media and for good reason, but they themselves stare at their phone and are overloaded on youtube commentary.

From my anecdotal observations even a little television makes kids crazy and all ramped up. They can certainly pick up some bizarre ideas even from relatively innocuous fare. It is far clearer to me now that my own oversaturation in media growing up hardly did me any good, to say the least.

This is probably an area where another kind of hypocritical asceticism might be warranted. As you say elsewhere this is a battle for the future. That said, media blackouts, temporary or otherwise, seem well advised. -Jack

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Jack - My mother did not let her children watch TV. There were exceptions; the family watched the "Wizard of Oz" every year, and somehow, I saw "Nanook of the North" which made a huge impression on me. I sometimes wonder why she restricted TV. I could be wrong, but I think it was because she knew she was dying. My mother may have wanted the most 'real time' possible with her children. Isn't there a Buddhist practice that involves contemplating one's own death? Such a reflection might well change our mindless absorption of TV and internet that threatens our compassion and awareness.

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I have joked that when my life passes before my eyes it won't be my life but reruns of Gilligan's Island. I am not looking forward to it.

Meditating on impermanence and death, however difficult at first would only benefit us. Askesis is a kind of death before death, a way to practice for it.

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“…the family watched the ‘Wizard of Oz’ every year…”

We did as well, often with a gaggle of cousins, and when the movie was over we would pick our favorite parts/characters and re-enact the scenes. It was primitive compared to an iPad, but fun.

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Your mother was wise to do so.

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My 7yo daughter came up to me while I was reading Jack's post and said, "Oh no Mom, You're not on the computer!? You are rotting your brain and you're gonna be addicted and you can't think anymore. Just shut it off and let's go swimming right now."

She was not properly respectful but I was still proud of her. :) And yes, we cannot preach what we don't practice.

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How good to hear it from a child, even impertinently!

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I must admit this made me smile.

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in her eyes, you are an evil influence along with Paul Kingsnorth and the real estate websites.

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She may not be completely off-base...

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Totally agree Bobby as I've read the book myself as I realised I was experiencing the same forms of distraction. Nicholas Carr I believe is the author.

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Nicholas Carr!! Thanks, Richard. I should have checked it out between then and now, but my brain is too inefficient to remember to do such things.

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We raised our children in Nigeria for ten years. There were no phones, TV, or computers; there was electricity only half the time! When we returned to America, I continued to home-school my children until they were juniors in high school (chemistry labs are tough to do in the kitchen). Fast forward, my daughter has taken my approach and gone further. Her children do not use any technology and there is no television. Their parents have computers and phones for remote work in a separate room away from where the family lives. This allows them some creative options. For example, the four-year-old is fascinated by pictures on his mother's phone. Instead of allowing him to swipe through them, they print one picture a day, put it under his pillow, and right before he goes to sleep, his father takes it out and they develop a story about the picture. Then they put the picture with others in a large photo album. Living without becoming dependent on technology requires imagination and effort, but the rewards are great.

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Diana- Catholic philosopher Peter Kreeft makes the claim that Africa is the happiest continent and produces the happiest Christians. I know that I have heard a lot of happy music that has come out of Africa. We in the West have Dark Side of the Moon and Radiohead! What should that tell you?

I would be interested to hear your thoughts on that and if true, how this happiness may relate to *not* having as much material possessions, particularly regarding technology. I am happier when I turn it all off, and yet here I am! Go figure...

I hope you are well. -Jack

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Goodness, Jack... Nigerians are not any happier than Americans but their unhappiness comes from different sources. There is a great deal of disease (I had malaria five times but escaped cholera) and many people, even in the profession class do not live much beyond fifty. Sexist discrimination limited the opportunities of most of the young women I taught. Slavery still exists and causes a great deal of misery for those unlucky enough to be enslaved. Violence is far more common in Nigeria than in the States. Most interesting was the extreme loneliness many of my peers and students felt; they trusted very few people. Religious fervor was often dark and laced with despair. Life was difficult for almost everyone.

Happy music? Much of the popular music I heard on the radio in Warri, Nigeria was sentimental pop from the West. Genuine African music has many textures and emotions and there is a vibrant musical community in Lagos. I might also suggest that the best popular music in America is worth time because it reflects the difficulties of life in our communities and the vulnerability of the musician (I've spent a good deal of time this week listening to Kendrick Lamar's most recent album). I'm not so interested in 'happy music'... okay, yes to Mozart!

Possessions are a trap and Jesus spent a good deal of time warning his followers about money. However, a certain level of material well-being is necessary to live a life that is not plagued by unremitting hardship. Happiness - and so much more - is found with the creator God who judges, redeems, and sanctifies us.

I hope you are well too. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

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Diana- Unfortunately the word happiness has become debased and connotates something shallow. I mean it in Aristotle's sense of human flourishing. Rather than the utilitarian sense of an hedonic calculus that rates happiness by the scale of maximizing pleasure and minimizing pain. The latter scale being the default one for our consumer society. Aristotle goes much deeper.

Aristotle also believed a basic level of material well-being was necessary for human flourishing, for happiness. Grinding poverty and exploitation can nullify our striving. But as I am sure you have seen, the human spirit is resilient and we try to do the best we can.

Than you again for your insight. -Jack

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Thank you for your thoughtful reminder of Aristotle's definition of happiness. The Utilitarian viewpoint is far more common today.

Are people resilient? I find humans fragile creatures, often deeply wounded and lost. Isn't that why you question the dominance of technology in our society? We need each other to be courageous. Together, we can work against the Machine that threatens our ability to honor what is Holy and love and serve others.

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That *is* why I question technology. And yes we are fragile, often absurdly so. We do need each other, and often are bound and determined to reject that need. The atrophy has gone deep into us that I wonder if we will simply devolve into a puddle of goo. Our technology will just chug and whir along not even noticing our absence.

The resilience comes from the fact we keep trying and don't want to give up no matter how dark it sometimes seems.

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Could happiness be more likely the by-product of a life well-lived in compassion and love rather than the end itself of life?

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Diana- Thank you for this. -Jack

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Absolutely true it does require much effort and imagination. Well done you.

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I read a book called Endangered Minds by a school teacher when my kids were small. That energized me to protect them from the screen. If the mom is a thoughtful type maybe that book would help guide her. It must be tough to sit back and watch as a grandparent.

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Thanks for this. I'll get a copy and pass it on. :)

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Aug 6, 2022
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Siochana- It really does seem to be a difficult needle to thread. Marshall McLuhan told us decades ago that the medium is the message. I don't go as far as that because content matters. But the very medium itself affects and changes us, as others here have noted. The internet changes us. I am not sure for the better. I would to hear how this process develops. I hope all is well. -Jack

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I find that balance, routine, structure, limitations, and communication, communication, communication are essential for me in helping my wife to raise our boys.

And lots of chats with mom!

Technology is like chocolate, a little bit is good, maybe for dessert, in small doses, balanced with good, wholesome food.

There is good in most things, if not all.

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There is a lot of good in technology. The question is in the balance. Do the benefits outweigh the negatives. This is a radical experiment we are running on ourselves and it is having and will have deep and far-reaching effects. We may not like what we get turned into, have already been turned into.

It is also having massive effects on politics and the economy. How it will change geopolitical reality is also largely in flux. I remain highly skeptical at best.

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There is cause for concern, I agree with you. Technology, at its root, is a neologism (a new word from ancient roots) that has upended the ancient Greek understanding of education. τέχνη (techne), or skill, was considered subordinate to παιδεία (paideia), or education. Education comes from 'educare' in Latin, which means to draw out vocation. Skills are important, but so is discerning vocation, perhaps more so.

The genie is out of the bottle and Pandora has let loose chaos into the world. Technology cannot be overcome because even rock tools are technology, to a degree. This present iteration of technology is deeply problematic, but I don't believe that it is sustainable. If we look back into history, there have always been those who have fled to the desert because they could not exist in society. The Jewish faith is founded in part on flight into the desert.

I strongly believe that there are those called to a literal flight to the desert, as you yourself have done in a way. I commend you highly for this, especially as you have left the cave and have brought back light to us in the dark. In this case, we are not all trying to kill you, in a pleasant update to Plato's important myth!

I only suggest that there are different vocations. Others are called to a metaphorical flight to the desert. There are still dragons in the desert because we cannot outrun the demons in ourselves. The sayings of the Desert Fathers and Mothers illustrate this well.

Also, Chrysostom fled to the desert as a young man, then ruined his digestion from overly rigorous fasting, and had to return to the city and eventually became the bishop of Constantinople, constantly critiquing the ways of the rich in the city, being exiled by the Christian emperor for criticizing the empress! This, too, is a different vocation as there are as many vocations as fish in the sea.

"This is a radical experiment we are running on ourselves and it is having and will have deep and far-reaching effects. We may not like what we get turned into, have already been turned into."

I agree. There are ways to reset the clock, however, to overcome. When did this experiment begin? How long has it been running? Where are its roots?

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Great article!!

Nate Hagens of The Great Simplification also has some stunning predictions on the fast impending energy crisis. We can’t live this way much longer - even if we want to - kind of puts all the culture war nonsense into perspective!

https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/modern-wisdom/id1347973549?i=1000574967600

https://youtu.be/-xr9rIQxwj4

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Stephanie- Thank you. I have to wonder if the collapse of globalism is going to happen much sooner than we think.

And thank you for the Great Simplification podcast recommendation. I think it is right up my alley. The name of the podcast may come from my favorite novel, A Canticle for Leibowitz. A novel I never get tired of talking about.

I hope you are well! -Jack

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Aug 6, 2022
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This is a deep comment. Much to ponder. Like Clara I am interested in the Amish. There basic way might be adapted by other traditions.

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I'm curious to learn more about the Amish. I recently saw a settlement in Unity, Maine. So much of what is available is as you describe, labelling them close minded etc. Is there any source you'd suggest other than visiting them?

Clara

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Frankie- Jesus tells us to sell all we have give the money to the poor and trust fully in God! A very different conception of Christian life than is usual. I am grappling with that and far from it. When I read the Zen Poets like the Stonehouse poet quoted at the end, I see they understood that better than I ever have. Thank you for your comment! -Jack

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Something to ponder...

SELL WHAT YOU POSSESS. JEROME: It is in our power whether we wish to be perfect. Yet whoever wishes to be perfect ought to sell what he has—and not sell them in part, as Ananias did and Sapphira, but to sell it all. When he has sold it to give it all to the poor, he has begun to prepare for himself a treasure in the kingdom of heaven. Nor is this sufficient for perfection unless after despising riches he follows the Savior, that is, abandons evil and does good. For more easily is a little purse despised than one’s will. Many abandon their wealth but do not follow the Savior. To follow the Savior is to be an imitator of him and walk in his steps. Anyone who says that he believes in Christ must himself also walk in the steps he walked in. COMMENTARY ON MATTHEW 3.19.21.

IF YOU WOULD BE PERFECT. ORIGEN: Someone might ask, If a perfect person is one who possesses all the virtues and no longer acts out of malice, how can the person who sells all his possessions and gives it to the poor then be perfect? For granted someone has done this, how will he go forth instantly without rage if he has previously been subject to rage? How will he instantly be immune to grief and rise above all the worries that can beset someone and cause him grief? How can he be free from all fear, whether of troubles or of death or those things which can upset the still imperfect soul? How will it be that anyone who sells his possessions and gives them to the poor will lack all desire?

More wisely a believer would seem to meet the question by keeping to the literal meaning and not expounding it allegorically. You decide for yourself whether what is said is worthily said according to its context or not. Some will say that anyone who gives to the poor is helped by their prayers. He takes for his salvation the abundance of the spiritual goods of those who are poor in material possessions to meet his own lack, as the apostle suggests in the second letter to the Corinthians. Who else would have this happen to him and be so greatly helped? For God listens to the prayers of so many poor people who have been relieved. Among them perhaps are people like the apostles or at any rate a little inferior to them, poor in material effects but rich in spiritual gifts. COMMENTARY ON MATTHEW 15.16–17.26

Simonetti, M. (Éd.). (2002). Matthew 14-28 (p. 101). Downers Grove, IL: InterVarsity Press.

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