Thanks for this, Jack. It was really good to read, and challenging in the right way.
This might not be a question you want to answer, but I found myself wanting to know what kind of 'contemplative practice' you're engaging in, and whether it is a practice of the monastery or a personal one. But ignore me if I'm being nosy.
The approach I take is largely a personal one. Though the monks do practice silent prayer. There isn't a set way to do that here.
I am a big fan of The Cloud of Unknowing, of course. If translated into modern English well it is a delight to read. It is, however, a book of advice to a novice and not a systematic treatise on contemplative prayer, i.e., it is somewhat conversational. But embedded within it is a method that really isn't fully a method.
The approach I follow is best laid out in "Into the Silent Land: A Guide to the Christian Practice of Contemplation" by Martin Laird. He is Catholic, and a Patristics scholar, who also makes heavy use of St. Theophan the Recluse--and The Cloud of Unknowing, Meister Eckhart, St. John of the Cross, and Teresa of Avila among others.
As for me, I do pray the Jesus Prayer both on its own and as a kind of recollection prior to silent prayer. I find the latter combination to be very helpful. Silent prayer, as I said above, is a method that is very close to no method at all. It is not outwardly dissimilar to meditation in other traditions. The difference, I think, is that of intention, i.e., of interiorly letting God be God, and the overall understanding of what one is doing.
As for the methodless method:
My part is to allow whatever is happening to happen. To let it be. Including letting thoughts be present as they will. The intention is not fight them, or anything. Though when I find that I have gotten caught up with my thoughts, etc., this very realization is already a return. It is a matter of resting in God--and in unknowing--and simply returning when I have noticed a departure. There is no way to fail at it. It doesn't depend on me.
Not nosy at all. I just hope the above makes sense.
p.s. as a side note: probably the biggest single influence on The Cloud of Unknowing is St. Dionysius the Areopagite (nothing pseudo about him!) particularly the Mystical Theology. St. Dionysius has had a strong influence on the Western Mystical tradition, but I would think his influence is even greater in the East. I see the Cloud as a way to bring the East and West, if not together than at least a bit closer.
I have all three of the books that you mentioned Jack and especially love “Into the Silent Land” by Martin Laird. Thank you by the way for the beautiful article.
Into the Silent Land is a truly beautiful book. It is one worth rereading on a regular basis. Which I try to do. Come to think of it, it has been a while. I am about due!
Yeah, our minds, brains, whatever they are, cannot and do not ever really solve anything even though they are very good at thinking. The idea that our reasoning power is the highest force of intelligence we have is deeply ingrained in this age of rationality. The higher intelligence is thought to be irrational but really it is Suprarational . It’s the next step in human evolution, or more accurately, involution.
And it may be that the modern era (and its intellectual precursors) is best characterized by a profound misunderstanding of what thinking actually is. We have made our 'thinking' more powerful within a certain narrow range by narrowing our thinking. As Iain McGilchrist has been saying. My hope is that the change away from this has already begun. We shall see.
But even our best thinking isn't going to do what we now want thinking to do. We need to rediscover its proper scope and depth.
It is strange how, as you say, cursory moments can affect us such in a disproportionate way. I have often theorized that there are a limited number of days that make your life what it is. These are the days of the Big Moments that either changed you or illuminated your path in some way. I have, somewhat randomly, set the number of these days as somewhere between 5 and 10. It may well be more or less than that.
For me, none of my Big Moments were connected to any professional success, marriage, or family. In fact, the two most significant Big Moments occurred during random meetings with complete strangers. The first happened when I was a young fire fighter in the Gold Country of California. One day our fire crew came across a solitary man who was working one of the many abandoned mines in the area. I was captivated by him and envied him his freedom that was so unlike most of the adults I knew. Still the coolest dude I ever met. The second occurred on a rainy day in San Francisco, when, while waiting for a bus home, a cab pulled up and a young man rolled down the rear window and asked me if I wanted to share a ride. Given how tired, depressed and hopeless I was feeling at that time in my life, the timing of this act of kindness took on the nature of a supernatural intervention. The young man seemed to have been sent to me personally as a reminder by a kindly Providence that I was not alone. I gratefully accepted his offer. He declined my offer to pay.
Both of these encounters were short, and I never learned either of the men's names. Mundane is a generous description of these events, yet they loom large in my memory. Of all the tens of thousands of similar meetings I have had in my life, why do these stick in my mind? I think the answer is that in a roundabout way, each touched on themes that have concerned me all of my life; the quest for freedom in a world that is increasingly hostile to the concept, and the need to have faith in a culture which has squeezed it to the margins.
None of this makes sense, except to me, and this is my interpretation. Neither of these chance meetings have resolved anything in my life. They have not made it any easier. But they have nonetheless served a purpose, which is to keep my eyes focused on the important things. Of course, my thoughts about their importance and their role in my life took a long time for me to discover. Would that I had figured it out sooner. But God, it seems, not only writes in crooked lines, He also uses a lot of circles. Why else would I still be turning over in my mind memories of events, now four decades past, of a lone gold miner and a ride in a yellow cab?
Jim- This is beautifully expressed. This captures it exactly.
Similarly, I can recall days often from decades ago, relentlessly ordinary days, that at the same time seemingly glowed from within. I don't think I will ever forget them. While whatever relative triumphs I may have had in my life pale and slip down the well of forgetfulness. It's interesting how that goes.
Thank you for this post. The process you describe at the beginning of the article, of the parade of recollections, is common to many meditative practices. I recall about two years of very similar experiences at the height (or perhaps depths?) of my sitting. Interestingly, one of the clearest descriptions of it is in a couple of Carlos Castaneda's books, where it is referred to as 'recapitulation', and is done somewhat deliberately (sometimes in a little wooden shed built for the purpose) to clear the 'charged relationships', as you mention. My personal feeling is that it's a beneficial phase and essential to stabilising the mind and clarifying the heart. Of course, it doesn't mean that current entanglements won't upset the applecart sometimes, but it does clear out old enmeshed attachments, deliver insights, and eventually make way for Tao, or God. And that is no small thing. Good wishes for your practice.
Caroline- Interesting. Thank you for pointing this out. I hadn't come across any mention of this particular type of thing within the Christian contemplative tradition. I am glad to know it is common. As I mentioned in the post what surprised me was just how much energy and attachment were still present--in some cases decades later--in relation to people who I certainly liked, but was not aware that I had any great affection for them at the time.
But it is, in retrospect, a fairly natural extension of the whole process of purgation. I wouldn't be surprised at all if there are even more hidden attachments lurking in the depths. Ones that will seem even more baffling to me than these once they actually surface. I am kind of looking forward to it (hopefully not famous last words).
Thank you for your insights. I hope all is well with you. -Jack
Thanks Jack, yes all is well and busy as I prepare to go to USA for the first time in 23 years. I too am still sometimes shocked by the animus, eros, or just the level of detail of feeling I have for these long (consciously) forgotten people and events. Excuse the lowly analogy, but I feel it is a kind of emotional 'drain-cleaning' - at first there's a bad smell and some blockages, but soon the water will run clear! It seems to happen to anyone engaged in sincere quiet meditation, especially types without overt form or aims. It is as though this use of the mind is some kind of universal cleaning method which dissolves attachments and entanglements but sometimes shows us quite how much gunk is still clinging to our inner channels.
Although I have met or taught perhaps a dozen people who have mentioned experiencing what you describe, I am not well-read outside Taoism and Buddhist meditation, (where it is also not talked about overtly). It is alluded to as part of mental hygiene in my tradition where it is a cause and effect of the instruction to 'reduce entanglements', practiced both in daily life and sitting meditation. (Buddhists might put this as non-attachment.) But I wonder if it was seen by our predecessors as not even worth mentioning, like 'taking out the trash' doesn't feature highly in stories and film... I would be extremely interested to know if other Christian or non-theist meditators have experienced the roll-call of past acquaintances. I also suddenly wonder if the famous 'life flashing before you' with near death experiences is some kind of psychic last ditch effort to get this important work done. I think it is really important work, Jack. Very best from me this Good Friday.
Caroline- Curiously it has been about the same amount of time since I was in the UK/Ireland. I hope to get back before I shuffle off this mortal coil. As crazy as life in the States can be, this continent is often beautiful beyond telling. I hope you get to see some it...particularly out West.
I often think that the Christian contemplative tradition can lack a deeper psychology of contemplation. Though there have been some efforts more recently in that regard. There may be more of it in the Christian East, but I have only begun looking more into that side. In the East, for example, it is far more the standard to have a close relationship with an Elder, at least as an ideal. This is something that is also lacking, for the most part, in the West.
We can all get waylaid by our own hidden, unconscious impulses and motivations. They are often hard to get at more directly. Or overwhelmed when they do arise. It would be beneficial to have something of a map to this territory. My hope is that this will be developed over time.
You are right, I think, in that in silence, solitude and simplicity the human organism (in the fullest sense of the term) starts to put itself aright--a kind of psychological/physiological homeostasis of what is out of balance and out of whack. The earlier stages of which is to begin to purge what is blocking this realignment. Depending on various factors this can take a short time or lifetime, it seems.
I fully agree this is important work. Given the vast means of self- and civilizational-destruction now at our fingertips, the future is in grave doubt unless we can more fully purge ourselves of what distorts and damages us--of the human will to power and dominance.
It often seems like it is a long shot. But contemplation, broadly conceived, is one significant place where I have a great hope.
A beautiful column, and I like the word “column” because it’s like a pillar holding something up/upright. Those who are amenable to deeper truth will see it.
I liked this part: "But neither is this a path of strenuous effort and self-will. The only way through is down and by letting go. In that sense, it is exceedingly simple. But this is no easy process and it cannot be controlled."
Harder to describe it to someone who doesn't know what you are talking about, but easily understood by those who have travelled that way.
I heard a raven yesterday morning on my walk. All my ideas and plans have been paused by the need to have my niece and nephews live with us. It feels like it is as it should be, as this post reminds me.
I like ravens myself. I get the sense that unlike most birds who seem to be highly reflexive, ravens look at us like they know who they are dealing with. Smart birds.
Yes, absolutely, the only way to get a sense of silent prayer is to do it--or rather have it done unto you. Hopefully as we travel the path, we see what is and what should be are often quite simple. I am the one who likes to complicate things.
It is a blessing that your niece and nephews have such a good place to go.
Jack, just a quick thought. I wonder if contemplation is more of the Western tradition, an action we take, rather than letting God do the work? I don’t know, I’m just asking a philosophical question. I’m copying and pasting a letter to my priest I wrote recently that has something to do with this. And then at the end did you see the article Dreher linked to today? Exactly what you’ve been talking about in terms of micro sketes. First the letter:
I don’t know anything about these things, so this is probably entirely wrong, forgive me.
I wonder if tears, or consciously furrowing deep sorrow, as a sign of repentance is ours to will for ourselves. If we try to hegemonize it, it is our effort, our pride in charge, not God’s humility molding us, and thus likely doomed to failure over the long term.
Perhaps all we can do in our spiritual poverty is empty and soften ourselves, ready the dough in preparation for the feast where God brings all the gifts and guests.
Emptying and softening ourselves while being alive to the material world, how does that happen? I’m uncertain it can in any profound way (at least that’s what I’ve found the last couple of weeks as I struggle to return to where I was). Instead in our spiritual hardness we put on superficial masks, we ourselves bring the gifts and guests: “look at me, God, the grand party I’ve prepared. Here are some brandy and cheesecake, here, sit in this comfy chair in the corner of my life and enjoy the feast I’ve made for you. Excuse me while I go greet my other guests, I’ll be back in a bit.”
Every day we are offered are own worldly garden apple, and every day we eat them. Career, 401k balance, new iPhone, someone serving us dinner at a restaurant, news, Facebook likes, irritation because someone cuts off our car, on and on. We eat all the apples and in eating them turn away from God.
I’m reminded of a famous saying, “Having heard all of this, you may choose to look the other way, but you can never say again that you did not know.” We know.
In divine love Christ went to the Cross for us, and in our return human love we offer Him what we have time for, or is convenient in the order of our “important” worldly material lives.
And thus our own efforts for tears or furrowing deep sorrow seem impossible. We’ve haven’t left the emptied and softened dough for God to mold. He left the brandy and cheesecake we gave him on the table while we went off to play host to the world.
Contemplation is indeed an action we take, but an action to let go of our own will and let God do his work in us. An action to consent to our own non-action. Which doesn't mean there isn't a wide range of ways we can hijack it for our own purposes. We can and often do. Still, if we persist in sincerely practicing it, eventually it will start to break that down. The practice itself exposes and begins to dismantle our defense mechanisms and attachments. It show us to ourselves and all the various ways we have avoided seeing ourselves clearly. We are simplified and emptied by letting go and not being in control. Contemplation and neurotic control are direct opposites. In the long run they cannot coexist. Though it is a process that may take decades and it isn't the only way, of course. To my experience--for what that is worth--it is the best way. Others may see this differently.
I hope I understood your point well enough and haven't gone off on a tangent.
Thank you for the link. I did see that Rod Dreher mentioned this. I look forward to learning more.
Thank you for the excellent explanation, Jack! Where I’m at, and hopefully I’m not a million miles off track, there are two distinct forms prayer (I’m using it as a very rough synonym for contemplation) takes in my life. The first is with the Jesus Prayer which is an utter emptying, nothing active, and is most importantly a listening. The other is more contemplative in the active sense, for example, praying the psalms. It is mostly talking rather than listening.
I hope Lent has been spiritually profitable for you.
If you happen to make your way up towards Billings this summer, please get in touch.
I think your distinction is a good one. I will propose also that it seems that the Monastic Office is a kind of middle path between receptive/listening and active, i.e., both.
I read the article on the Abbey in France. The more of this the better. I haven't really fleshed out the micro-skete idea, but I see it as at least 3-5 people living a contemplative life together wherever they might happen to be, i.e., city, suburbs, rural, or out in the wilds. And to whatever degree possible trying to live independently of the megasystem/machine. But it may take a larger magnet such as this French Abbey to get people to take the leap. A leap you have made in your own way.
I hope your Lent has been fruitful as well. I have never been to Montana. I have been fascinated with the state since I read The Big Sky by A.B. Guthrie back in High School. I will definitely let you know should I head that way.
'There is great hope in surrender and letting things go and letting things be': the paradoxical, but not impossible, crux.
The way you used the quotations in this piece is special. It draws a picture of you dropping into silence and brings the form and message into a lovely alignment.
"Even someone we never paid much attention to can leave a lasting impression on us and affect our lives in ways that we can never fully reckon. And that out there somewhere we too might be playing that same role for someone else." This is an idea that resonates strongly with me - maybe because I am a very relational person...I do believe that every person that enters our life is there for a reason, they play a role on the grand stage, and it is my part to discern how I can encounter them with attention, care, service etc. Looking back over the last couple of decades of encounters, acquaintances, and friendships, I am often incredibly struck with their relevance that I could not have possibly predicted.
I can't agree more. I have been really struck by this all coming up recently. It is making me rethink what any particularly person may mean in my life. My previous (and largely implicit) assumption has been something quite different until now. I have certainly recognized the connections between the "major players" in my life, for lack of a better term. There is something profound, I think, in the idea that someone with whom I had what seemed to be a more tangential connection got into my psyche and stayed there for so long. And is now being revealed. It is really quite amazing to me.
One such example was someone whose last name I had forgotten but found said person on the internet anyway. I am debating whether I should make contact again. Something to pray about, I suppose.
As a very intuitive person I generally respond to these 'prompts' unless there is a strong reason not to. In my experience, God seldom uses a megaphone, but rather gentle tugs to prompt us to open doors or open our hearts. I felt this was particularly the case with people in my past I had somehow wronged or been unkind to. These were interactions that would come back to mind and I took it as a prompting to reach out and ask forgiveness or right the situation, even though it would have seemed much easier to just let it go, it was the connection, the reaching out, that actually allowed the situation to resolve.
I think you are right. Though I have my quick intuition and my slow intuition. Unless otherwise necessary, I tend to give the slow intuition a chance to have its say as well. But I am with you, I think it is worth reaching out.
Hi, Jack, this post inspired to formulate my personal prayer practice. I can point to verses in the NT and OT as models, but not so much in the classic contemplative literature. I stand, Mark 11:25, even if I begin sitting, I end up standing as life fills me. I even have a preferred direction to face as I first stand - north as that is the direction the Lord arrived from when he met with Job and Ezekiel. But I usually end up moving around, even dancing, or going on my face. I begin with a simple “Lord Jesus” acknowledging his immediate presence, and renewing once again the proper response to him as Lord, God and the Door to the Father and the Spirit and re-enacting Thomas’s response to the Risen Christ and Romans 10:9-10, all this is contained in that simple phrase of speaking directly to the One who is there. I typically immediately speaking quietly in tongues, alternating with English expressions of praise and thanksgiving to the Father and the Son, 1 Corinthians 14: 2-4,14-18. Intercession and confession can happen, times of rapt quietness can happen, it’s quite physical and I can attest that our bodies are indeed temples of the Spirit, “the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus” Romans 8:2,11 , John 4:14, John 7:37-39, Ephesians 6:16, Jude 20. I think the Spirit is a freely given gift given to us in the blessed name of Jesus the friend of sinners “ the Spirit helps us in our weakness” Romans 8:26. Blessings on both our continued journeys to the same place. The I need to change and grow stuff happens also in my life, and there are certainly times of repentance, confession and humility that are ministered to me.
Jeff- This reminds me of when I was in music school in college. I was a big fan of the music of Steve Reich (not to everyone's taste, I will admit). He wrote a piece entitled Tehillim (aka the psalms) in Hebrew. So if I was alone in my campus apt. I would put it on and dance to it. I must have been quite a sight should anyone have seen me. But it was joyful.
The heavens declare the glory of God, and the sky shows His handiwork. Day to day they speak, night to night they reveal knowledge. There is no speech, no words, where their voice goes unheard. Their voice has gone out to all the earth and their words to the end of the world. In the heavens He pitched a tent for the sun.
Your post and Paul’s question has refocused me on my time of prayer. Thank you. I have a busy and fulfilling work vocation, meaningful worthwhile outside of work activities and responsibilities, what I call my carcass maintenance routine, good health, in short plenty of good stuff to do so my going aside to periods of prayer regularly as Jesus, Paul, and Peter did is easily and unconsciously forgotten.
Even though I am currently living in place about as conducive to prayer as I can imagine, I still have to wrangle with myself nearly everyday. The conversation in my head goes something like:
"I don't really want to do it today"
"Then don't. Nobody is making you"
"But my day goes so much better when I do"
"Okay, then do it. Nobody is making you do it. You can choose to just do it."
Thanks for this, Jack. Whenever I read your work, I feel like a spiritual translator, asking myself, “He lives in a monastery, and I live in suburbia, so what can I take away from what he does there, and do it here?”
So, I wonder, what does it mean to let go for me? For me, it can’t mean releasing myself from all attachments, because many of the attachments serve a purpose or have a meaning (work, children, etc.). So here, letting go means something else, like relaxing control, or letting go of the tendency to cling to certain emotions. In other words, it is not a total surrender; and while I am glad to let go of negative emotions, I am happy to enjoy the positive ones and even draw them out a bit – whereas in truly monastic traditions even those might be abandoned (I assume).
Looked at in this way, I can be left feeling like a second-class spiritual citizen, one who is not truly seeking the ultimate but settling for a watered-down version of spirituality, although I don’t actually believe that is the case (nor do I think that that is your point either). Still, it raises the question, Is the spiritual framework of the monk and ordinary person the same, or just overlapping yet otherwise different?
A reverse way of looking at things is to suppose that we were meant to have attachments; that as relational beings there is necessarily a separation between one person and another, and attachment of some kind is needed to bridge this gap; and that the suffering we experience from such attachments are also a part of their meaning. We may need therapy when the attachments become too painful, or pathological, but otherwise, we limp along, sometimes weeping, sometimes joyful, sometimes quiet, struggling to keep the balance between healthy attachment and the suffering it might bring.
I’m just thinking out loud here...indulging in incomplete thoughts.
Peter- These are all great questions. Come to think of it this would make a great topic for a podcast. (someday. soon?). As I started think about a response it struck me that it would be a lengthy comment. So why not just make my response into a whole new post? Which is what I intend to do. Thank you for the questions to get me started. I think Meister Eckhart, for one, has many things to say on the topic.-Jack
Funny, I was going to write a post on a similar topic soon. I’m in the middle of reading The Varieties of Spiritual Experience by Yaden and Newberg, a couple of neuroscientists who are spinning off of William James’ book The Varieties of Religious Experience.
Their book is often too reductionist for me (e.g., they think St Paul’s vision on the road to Damascus was likely due to epilepsy); still, the book is interesting in that it broadly surveys spiritual practices (Christian, Buddhist, etc.) and their measurable psychological impacts.
The reductionist tendency is a Machine tendency too…but I will save that for my eventual article.
Well since we can't (yet) do a podcast perhaps we can have a written conversation? If so you can go first since I just published this one. Let me know if that sounds interesting to you.
Humans are meant to have interdependence, not attachments. People form attachments when they are ignorant of the interdependence that already exists. In their delusion, they are trying to form connections on top of the ones that already exist, leading to a hyper-individualism and a materialist-based culture.
JP- Eckhart is a tough one. I have wrestled with him for a good while. The best place I have found to start is his vernacular sermons. I use the collection translated by Edmund Colledge and Bernard McGinn which is part of the Classics of Western Spirituality series. But there are others.
I have taken to reading these out loud to myself as a kind of Lectio Divina. I find doing this makes it not only easier to follow but more likely to yield basic understanding as well as occasional insights.
For what it is worth, I think he is well worth wrestling with.
p.s. the best general introduction I have come across is "The Way of Paradox: Spiritual Life as Taught by Meister Eckhart" by Cyprian Smith. I think it gives an accessible and balanced view of his thought, with enough depth to make reading Meister Eckhart more fruitful.
"You should love him as he is, a not-God, not-mind, not-person, not-image — even more, as he is a pure, clear One, separate from all twoness. And we should sink eternally from something to nothing into this One."
As close to Buddhist truth as I have found in Abrahamic thought. The rejection of dualistic thinking is stunning.
Brian- Eckhart really is something. There is a strain in Christianity--both east and west--that stems largely from the writings of St. Dionysius the Areopagite. This tradition was more fully embraced in the east, but it is still there in the west. The Cloud of Unknowing is part of it--I think perhaps that there may have been more than one reason the Cloud author remained anonymous.
Meister Eckhart, as you may know, got himself in some hot water with the authorities over some of his more exuberant expressions, but died before anything could really be done to him. Eventually this kind of apophaticism was actually officially taken up into the west with St. John of the Cross--who referred to God as Nada, nothing--and the Carmelites.
This is where I try to situate myself, as best as I can fathom it--or not fathom it, as it were. The time is ripe for it.
Thank you for the quote.
More importantly, I am glad you are here. I hope all is well. -Jack
He really was a spiritual virtuoso and easily misunderstood. Reading his sermons are exhilarating, even the times I have no idea what he is talking about. I have grappled with him for decades. I am still at it.
Having just found this substack, I will say that retiring to a monastery is delusion. Jesus' message was to help the poor, that was not all of it, but it was a critical part, and if one is not doing that, one is not doing the will of Jesus.
You do way more good by doing something like signing the Giving What We can pledge than being in a monastery. I know one Christian who has a career yet lives in a minivan because he gives most of his salary to charity. That is real spiritual development.
This stuff could be, but it needs to be grounded in actual good works. Otherwise you are not attaining perfection or getting close to God, you are just deluded. Ever questioned yourself that? How would you know whether or not you are deluded? I say if your spiritual development happens purely within you, it actually is delusion. A substack is not enough to change that: the world has too many problems before we get to those a substack might help with.
Since you are of the contemplative bent, take a page from the Sufis. They are contemplatives, yet of the world.
Apologies if you actually are doing something like what the Christian I mentioned is doing. It's not like I read the whole substack.
I know that what happens in a monastery is purely internal, at least on most of them. It is not something that I see helping the needy much. Delusion feels joyful and it feels beautiful. And one does not need to go far to find the presence of God. That can be found right in the midst of the activity of the suffering world.
Do you consider monkhood superior to the state the man in the minivan is in? If so, why? Or do you believe it is not possible to compare?
I'm sorry, who are you again? I am all for conversations across disagreement, but I don't recall requesting an interview.
Given your opening gambit of accusing those who don't see things your way as being "delusional", this may not be the Substack for you. You have one of your own, it seems. The internet is vast, Carlos, and has many rooms, go forth in peace.
It's just an open comments section. The interview ends when you want it to end, which is seemingly now. But really, given the risk of delusion inherent in spirituality, it is something to question oneself on. The thing I realized is that the only way to know one is not deluding oneself with this stuff is by performing good works. It is not a narrow way, as it appears in every religion.
Let's recap: You popped up out of nowhere and the first thing you say is basically an insult. You proffer unsolicited spiritual guidance of the most obvious kind as if manna from heaven. And then you try to pose loaded questions that flip the framework entirely to your own.
This simply isn't how it is done...not here, anyway. Where I come from such efforts would be called rhetorical manipulation, and whether you intended it or not, I am calling it out as such.
That said, you are more than welcome to join the conversation here. I find it illuminating, given all the various perspectives that people have, if I do say so myself. Honestly, you may actually like it.
The unspoken rule--which I will speak now--is that the goal of the comment section is a honest but kind and respectful conversation, not monologues, not arrogant pronouncements from above. You have your own substack if you want to do that.
We live in utterly baffling times and I would submit that anyone who thinks they have it figured out, doesn't, and additionally are typically not very insightful.
Please join in. Otherwise, I wish you well with everything you do.
I don't think I have it all figured out, as what I'm providing is not an entire spiritual path, just a test to distinguish the fake from the genuine, and technically also a way to turn all this stuff into something real. It's possible you had not encountered the concept of spiritual delusion before, which the Eastern Orthodox know as prelest, but it's an important thing to be aware of.
Unless you think all spirituality is authentic, asking oneself how to discern falseness from the truth is critical. The conclusion I have arrived to really is just a restatement of "faith without works is dead", but quite often a restatement is all that is needed, as the highest spiritual truths are perennial.
Its Ceci again, actually I have recently decided to share my full given name with you. Its Cecilia.
I know you well enough to know that you are well versed in the significance of names in the Bible. My name when traced back to its core actually means blind.
I apologize for the ridiculous disaster of a girl I have been to you, I am a gentle soul... Always have been. I knew early on I would not last long in the environment of lies and manipulation that we were speeding toward. So I taught myself to use a clinical paradox method to fortify myself for as long as I could. It worked well until the people I loved and trusted most abandoned me. Have you ever loved someone so much you'd give them anything they asked? I would have let my loved ones cut off my leg and eaten it . You cannot imagine the pain and grief I experienced when I realized they not only would not do the same for me, but actually chose to hurt me every opportunity they got. It should have destroyed me. But it didn't.
My dark night of the soul was not as complex as I told you. I was spiritually blind (dead) and I called out to Jesus when I hit bottom. And he answered. He has continued to answer my call, ever since that first night. Its why I tell people I am blessed and favored by him. I am more aware than most of just how spiritually bankrupt I am without him.
Blind is the name I am called and blind is the name I answer to.
All this Jesus stuff is real, I actually tried to pulled a Jonah when I found out. Apparently I am terrified of my own success...
Anyway, it turns out my calling is to heal and lift up others to the potential God has destined for them.
Please message me if you would like my help healing and forgiving your scars. Or just want to talk to someone who will not judge you. I can guarantee my own past is worse than your own.
I told you the monastery program was a waste of time months ago... Jus sayin lol
I assume your name derives then from the Latin caecus = blind, dark, obscure, etc. Though as you may know, St. Cecilia is also the patron saint of music in both the Catholic and Orthodox Churches. So there's that.
You are most welcome to be part of the discussion here. I realize there are other factors going on, but I humbly asked that you try to be *part* of the discussion and not attempt to put your own view over and above others. That is the ethos I stand by. Dissent is welcome. And I strive to be tolerant, but alas, I too have my limits. By default I am the referee and I have only so much tolerance for disruption. It is my call to determine what that is. So far, the discussion here has been fruitful. I would like to keep it that way.
Thank you for letting me know it was you through the online name change. It is helpful.
I am very well. In fact, I have been so incredibly blessed and favored by God that some days it feels like I am living in heaven on Earth. We are all responsible for our choices and that includes the views we testify to as truth. No one can force another to choose their views. We all get to choose for ourselves.
Courage of conviction when claiming those views is not intolerance. Intolerance is an unwillingness to tolerate/respect opinions different from your own. An example of this is the unwillingness to debate or discuss certain subjects with others or in some cases silence them completely through social ostracism.
I understand my persistence in trying to lend a helping hand is troublesome to you so I will leave.
Thanks for this, Jack. It was really good to read, and challenging in the right way.
This might not be a question you want to answer, but I found myself wanting to know what kind of 'contemplative practice' you're engaging in, and whether it is a practice of the monastery or a personal one. But ignore me if I'm being nosy.
Paul-
The approach I take is largely a personal one. Though the monks do practice silent prayer. There isn't a set way to do that here.
I am a big fan of The Cloud of Unknowing, of course. If translated into modern English well it is a delight to read. It is, however, a book of advice to a novice and not a systematic treatise on contemplative prayer, i.e., it is somewhat conversational. But embedded within it is a method that really isn't fully a method.
The approach I follow is best laid out in "Into the Silent Land: A Guide to the Christian Practice of Contemplation" by Martin Laird. He is Catholic, and a Patristics scholar, who also makes heavy use of St. Theophan the Recluse--and The Cloud of Unknowing, Meister Eckhart, St. John of the Cross, and Teresa of Avila among others.
As for me, I do pray the Jesus Prayer both on its own and as a kind of recollection prior to silent prayer. I find the latter combination to be very helpful. Silent prayer, as I said above, is a method that is very close to no method at all. It is not outwardly dissimilar to meditation in other traditions. The difference, I think, is that of intention, i.e., of interiorly letting God be God, and the overall understanding of what one is doing.
As for the methodless method:
My part is to allow whatever is happening to happen. To let it be. Including letting thoughts be present as they will. The intention is not fight them, or anything. Though when I find that I have gotten caught up with my thoughts, etc., this very realization is already a return. It is a matter of resting in God--and in unknowing--and simply returning when I have noticed a departure. There is no way to fail at it. It doesn't depend on me.
Not nosy at all. I just hope the above makes sense.
-Jack
p.s. as a side note: probably the biggest single influence on The Cloud of Unknowing is St. Dionysius the Areopagite (nothing pseudo about him!) particularly the Mystical Theology. St. Dionysius has had a strong influence on the Western Mystical tradition, but I would think his influence is even greater in the East. I see the Cloud as a way to bring the East and West, if not together than at least a bit closer.
I have all three of the books that you mentioned Jack and especially love “Into the Silent Land” by Martin Laird. Thank you by the way for the beautiful article.
Joanna-
Into the Silent Land is a truly beautiful book. It is one worth rereading on a regular basis. Which I try to do. Come to think of it, it has been a while. I am about due!
Thank you for being here. -Jack
You inspire me to read that again! One of my favorites!
Thank you as well !
Joanna
Thanks Jack - it sounds like Vipassana also, though obviously with an implicit intention on God, which would be a difference.
Yeah, our minds, brains, whatever they are, cannot and do not ever really solve anything even though they are very good at thinking. The idea that our reasoning power is the highest force of intelligence we have is deeply ingrained in this age of rationality. The higher intelligence is thought to be irrational but really it is Suprarational . It’s the next step in human evolution, or more accurately, involution.
Dennis-
Beautifully said.
And it may be that the modern era (and its intellectual precursors) is best characterized by a profound misunderstanding of what thinking actually is. We have made our 'thinking' more powerful within a certain narrow range by narrowing our thinking. As Iain McGilchrist has been saying. My hope is that the change away from this has already begun. We shall see.
But even our best thinking isn't going to do what we now want thinking to do. We need to rediscover its proper scope and depth.
-Jack
Deepening the mind by soaking it in the heart.
Amen.
Jack,
It is strange how, as you say, cursory moments can affect us such in a disproportionate way. I have often theorized that there are a limited number of days that make your life what it is. These are the days of the Big Moments that either changed you or illuminated your path in some way. I have, somewhat randomly, set the number of these days as somewhere between 5 and 10. It may well be more or less than that.
For me, none of my Big Moments were connected to any professional success, marriage, or family. In fact, the two most significant Big Moments occurred during random meetings with complete strangers. The first happened when I was a young fire fighter in the Gold Country of California. One day our fire crew came across a solitary man who was working one of the many abandoned mines in the area. I was captivated by him and envied him his freedom that was so unlike most of the adults I knew. Still the coolest dude I ever met. The second occurred on a rainy day in San Francisco, when, while waiting for a bus home, a cab pulled up and a young man rolled down the rear window and asked me if I wanted to share a ride. Given how tired, depressed and hopeless I was feeling at that time in my life, the timing of this act of kindness took on the nature of a supernatural intervention. The young man seemed to have been sent to me personally as a reminder by a kindly Providence that I was not alone. I gratefully accepted his offer. He declined my offer to pay.
Both of these encounters were short, and I never learned either of the men's names. Mundane is a generous description of these events, yet they loom large in my memory. Of all the tens of thousands of similar meetings I have had in my life, why do these stick in my mind? I think the answer is that in a roundabout way, each touched on themes that have concerned me all of my life; the quest for freedom in a world that is increasingly hostile to the concept, and the need to have faith in a culture which has squeezed it to the margins.
None of this makes sense, except to me, and this is my interpretation. Neither of these chance meetings have resolved anything in my life. They have not made it any easier. But they have nonetheless served a purpose, which is to keep my eyes focused on the important things. Of course, my thoughts about their importance and their role in my life took a long time for me to discover. Would that I had figured it out sooner. But God, it seems, not only writes in crooked lines, He also uses a lot of circles. Why else would I still be turning over in my mind memories of events, now four decades past, of a lone gold miner and a ride in a yellow cab?
Jim- This is beautifully expressed. This captures it exactly.
Similarly, I can recall days often from decades ago, relentlessly ordinary days, that at the same time seemingly glowed from within. I don't think I will ever forget them. While whatever relative triumphs I may have had in my life pale and slip down the well of forgetfulness. It's interesting how that goes.
I hope all is well. -Jack
Thanks, Jack.
Thank you for this post. The process you describe at the beginning of the article, of the parade of recollections, is common to many meditative practices. I recall about two years of very similar experiences at the height (or perhaps depths?) of my sitting. Interestingly, one of the clearest descriptions of it is in a couple of Carlos Castaneda's books, where it is referred to as 'recapitulation', and is done somewhat deliberately (sometimes in a little wooden shed built for the purpose) to clear the 'charged relationships', as you mention. My personal feeling is that it's a beneficial phase and essential to stabilising the mind and clarifying the heart. Of course, it doesn't mean that current entanglements won't upset the applecart sometimes, but it does clear out old enmeshed attachments, deliver insights, and eventually make way for Tao, or God. And that is no small thing. Good wishes for your practice.
Caroline- Interesting. Thank you for pointing this out. I hadn't come across any mention of this particular type of thing within the Christian contemplative tradition. I am glad to know it is common. As I mentioned in the post what surprised me was just how much energy and attachment were still present--in some cases decades later--in relation to people who I certainly liked, but was not aware that I had any great affection for them at the time.
But it is, in retrospect, a fairly natural extension of the whole process of purgation. I wouldn't be surprised at all if there are even more hidden attachments lurking in the depths. Ones that will seem even more baffling to me than these once they actually surface. I am kind of looking forward to it (hopefully not famous last words).
Thank you for your insights. I hope all is well with you. -Jack
Thanks Jack, yes all is well and busy as I prepare to go to USA for the first time in 23 years. I too am still sometimes shocked by the animus, eros, or just the level of detail of feeling I have for these long (consciously) forgotten people and events. Excuse the lowly analogy, but I feel it is a kind of emotional 'drain-cleaning' - at first there's a bad smell and some blockages, but soon the water will run clear! It seems to happen to anyone engaged in sincere quiet meditation, especially types without overt form or aims. It is as though this use of the mind is some kind of universal cleaning method which dissolves attachments and entanglements but sometimes shows us quite how much gunk is still clinging to our inner channels.
Although I have met or taught perhaps a dozen people who have mentioned experiencing what you describe, I am not well-read outside Taoism and Buddhist meditation, (where it is also not talked about overtly). It is alluded to as part of mental hygiene in my tradition where it is a cause and effect of the instruction to 'reduce entanglements', practiced both in daily life and sitting meditation. (Buddhists might put this as non-attachment.) But I wonder if it was seen by our predecessors as not even worth mentioning, like 'taking out the trash' doesn't feature highly in stories and film... I would be extremely interested to know if other Christian or non-theist meditators have experienced the roll-call of past acquaintances. I also suddenly wonder if the famous 'life flashing before you' with near death experiences is some kind of psychic last ditch effort to get this important work done. I think it is really important work, Jack. Very best from me this Good Friday.
Caroline- Curiously it has been about the same amount of time since I was in the UK/Ireland. I hope to get back before I shuffle off this mortal coil. As crazy as life in the States can be, this continent is often beautiful beyond telling. I hope you get to see some it...particularly out West.
I often think that the Christian contemplative tradition can lack a deeper psychology of contemplation. Though there have been some efforts more recently in that regard. There may be more of it in the Christian East, but I have only begun looking more into that side. In the East, for example, it is far more the standard to have a close relationship with an Elder, at least as an ideal. This is something that is also lacking, for the most part, in the West.
We can all get waylaid by our own hidden, unconscious impulses and motivations. They are often hard to get at more directly. Or overwhelmed when they do arise. It would be beneficial to have something of a map to this territory. My hope is that this will be developed over time.
You are right, I think, in that in silence, solitude and simplicity the human organism (in the fullest sense of the term) starts to put itself aright--a kind of psychological/physiological homeostasis of what is out of balance and out of whack. The earlier stages of which is to begin to purge what is blocking this realignment. Depending on various factors this can take a short time or lifetime, it seems.
I fully agree this is important work. Given the vast means of self- and civilizational-destruction now at our fingertips, the future is in grave doubt unless we can more fully purge ourselves of what distorts and damages us--of the human will to power and dominance.
It often seems like it is a long shot. But contemplation, broadly conceived, is one significant place where I have a great hope.
Thank you for insights. -Jack
A beautiful column, and I like the word “column” because it’s like a pillar holding something up/upright. Those who are amenable to deeper truth will see it.
I liked this part: "But neither is this a path of strenuous effort and self-will. The only way through is down and by letting go. In that sense, it is exceedingly simple. But this is no easy process and it cannot be controlled."
Harder to describe it to someone who doesn't know what you are talking about, but easily understood by those who have travelled that way.
I heard a raven yesterday morning on my walk. All my ideas and plans have been paused by the need to have my niece and nephews live with us. It feels like it is as it should be, as this post reminds me.
Clara
Clara-
I like ravens myself. I get the sense that unlike most birds who seem to be highly reflexive, ravens look at us like they know who they are dealing with. Smart birds.
Yes, absolutely, the only way to get a sense of silent prayer is to do it--or rather have it done unto you. Hopefully as we travel the path, we see what is and what should be are often quite simple. I am the one who likes to complicate things.
It is a blessing that your niece and nephews have such a good place to go.
-Jack
Jack, just a quick thought. I wonder if contemplation is more of the Western tradition, an action we take, rather than letting God do the work? I don’t know, I’m just asking a philosophical question. I’m copying and pasting a letter to my priest I wrote recently that has something to do with this. And then at the end did you see the article Dreher linked to today? Exactly what you’ve been talking about in terms of micro sketes. First the letter:
I don’t know anything about these things, so this is probably entirely wrong, forgive me.
I wonder if tears, or consciously furrowing deep sorrow, as a sign of repentance is ours to will for ourselves. If we try to hegemonize it, it is our effort, our pride in charge, not God’s humility molding us, and thus likely doomed to failure over the long term.
Perhaps all we can do in our spiritual poverty is empty and soften ourselves, ready the dough in preparation for the feast where God brings all the gifts and guests.
Emptying and softening ourselves while being alive to the material world, how does that happen? I’m uncertain it can in any profound way (at least that’s what I’ve found the last couple of weeks as I struggle to return to where I was). Instead in our spiritual hardness we put on superficial masks, we ourselves bring the gifts and guests: “look at me, God, the grand party I’ve prepared. Here are some brandy and cheesecake, here, sit in this comfy chair in the corner of my life and enjoy the feast I’ve made for you. Excuse me while I go greet my other guests, I’ll be back in a bit.”
Every day we are offered are own worldly garden apple, and every day we eat them. Career, 401k balance, new iPhone, someone serving us dinner at a restaurant, news, Facebook likes, irritation because someone cuts off our car, on and on. We eat all the apples and in eating them turn away from God.
I’m reminded of a famous saying, “Having heard all of this, you may choose to look the other way, but you can never say again that you did not know.” We know.
In divine love Christ went to the Cross for us, and in our return human love we offer Him what we have time for, or is convenient in the order of our “important” worldly material lives.
And thus our own efforts for tears or furrowing deep sorrow seem impossible. We’ve haven’t left the emptied and softened dough for God to mold. He left the brandy and cheesecake we gave him on the table while we went off to play host to the world.
And here is the article: https://www.ncregister.com/features/la-lucerne-abbey-in-france-is-a-new-beacon-in-the-night-of-de-christianization?utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email
Tim-
Contemplation is indeed an action we take, but an action to let go of our own will and let God do his work in us. An action to consent to our own non-action. Which doesn't mean there isn't a wide range of ways we can hijack it for our own purposes. We can and often do. Still, if we persist in sincerely practicing it, eventually it will start to break that down. The practice itself exposes and begins to dismantle our defense mechanisms and attachments. It show us to ourselves and all the various ways we have avoided seeing ourselves clearly. We are simplified and emptied by letting go and not being in control. Contemplation and neurotic control are direct opposites. In the long run they cannot coexist. Though it is a process that may take decades and it isn't the only way, of course. To my experience--for what that is worth--it is the best way. Others may see this differently.
I hope I understood your point well enough and haven't gone off on a tangent.
Thank you for the link. I did see that Rod Dreher mentioned this. I look forward to learning more.
-Jack
Thank you for the excellent explanation, Jack! Where I’m at, and hopefully I’m not a million miles off track, there are two distinct forms prayer (I’m using it as a very rough synonym for contemplation) takes in my life. The first is with the Jesus Prayer which is an utter emptying, nothing active, and is most importantly a listening. The other is more contemplative in the active sense, for example, praying the psalms. It is mostly talking rather than listening.
I hope Lent has been spiritually profitable for you.
If you happen to make your way up towards Billings this summer, please get in touch.
I think your distinction is a good one. I will propose also that it seems that the Monastic Office is a kind of middle path between receptive/listening and active, i.e., both.
I read the article on the Abbey in France. The more of this the better. I haven't really fleshed out the micro-skete idea, but I see it as at least 3-5 people living a contemplative life together wherever they might happen to be, i.e., city, suburbs, rural, or out in the wilds. And to whatever degree possible trying to live independently of the megasystem/machine. But it may take a larger magnet such as this French Abbey to get people to take the leap. A leap you have made in your own way.
I hope your Lent has been fruitful as well. I have never been to Montana. I have been fascinated with the state since I read The Big Sky by A.B. Guthrie back in High School. I will definitely let you know should I head that way.
-Jack
'There is great hope in surrender and letting things go and letting things be': the paradoxical, but not impossible, crux.
The way you used the quotations in this piece is special. It draws a picture of you dropping into silence and brings the form and message into a lovely alignment.
Thank you.
"Even someone we never paid much attention to can leave a lasting impression on us and affect our lives in ways that we can never fully reckon. And that out there somewhere we too might be playing that same role for someone else." This is an idea that resonates strongly with me - maybe because I am a very relational person...I do believe that every person that enters our life is there for a reason, they play a role on the grand stage, and it is my part to discern how I can encounter them with attention, care, service etc. Looking back over the last couple of decades of encounters, acquaintances, and friendships, I am often incredibly struck with their relevance that I could not have possibly predicted.
Ruth-
I can't agree more. I have been really struck by this all coming up recently. It is making me rethink what any particularly person may mean in my life. My previous (and largely implicit) assumption has been something quite different until now. I have certainly recognized the connections between the "major players" in my life, for lack of a better term. There is something profound, I think, in the idea that someone with whom I had what seemed to be a more tangential connection got into my psyche and stayed there for so long. And is now being revealed. It is really quite amazing to me.
One such example was someone whose last name I had forgotten but found said person on the internet anyway. I am debating whether I should make contact again. Something to pray about, I suppose.
Interesting. Interesting.
-Jack
As a very intuitive person I generally respond to these 'prompts' unless there is a strong reason not to. In my experience, God seldom uses a megaphone, but rather gentle tugs to prompt us to open doors or open our hearts. I felt this was particularly the case with people in my past I had somehow wronged or been unkind to. These were interactions that would come back to mind and I took it as a prompting to reach out and ask forgiveness or right the situation, even though it would have seemed much easier to just let it go, it was the connection, the reaching out, that actually allowed the situation to resolve.
I think you are right. Though I have my quick intuition and my slow intuition. Unless otherwise necessary, I tend to give the slow intuition a chance to have its say as well. But I am with you, I think it is worth reaching out.
Hi, Jack, this post inspired to formulate my personal prayer practice. I can point to verses in the NT and OT as models, but not so much in the classic contemplative literature. I stand, Mark 11:25, even if I begin sitting, I end up standing as life fills me. I even have a preferred direction to face as I first stand - north as that is the direction the Lord arrived from when he met with Job and Ezekiel. But I usually end up moving around, even dancing, or going on my face. I begin with a simple “Lord Jesus” acknowledging his immediate presence, and renewing once again the proper response to him as Lord, God and the Door to the Father and the Spirit and re-enacting Thomas’s response to the Risen Christ and Romans 10:9-10, all this is contained in that simple phrase of speaking directly to the One who is there. I typically immediately speaking quietly in tongues, alternating with English expressions of praise and thanksgiving to the Father and the Son, 1 Corinthians 14: 2-4,14-18. Intercession and confession can happen, times of rapt quietness can happen, it’s quite physical and I can attest that our bodies are indeed temples of the Spirit, “the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus” Romans 8:2,11 , John 4:14, John 7:37-39, Ephesians 6:16, Jude 20. I think the Spirit is a freely given gift given to us in the blessed name of Jesus the friend of sinners “ the Spirit helps us in our weakness” Romans 8:26. Blessings on both our continued journeys to the same place. The I need to change and grow stuff happens also in my life, and there are certainly times of repentance, confession and humility that are ministered to me.
Jeff-
Beautiful. I think it was Nietzsche who said, "never trust a God that doesn't dance". But ours does! So should we then.
Thank you for this. -Jack
Jeff- This reminds me of when I was in music school in college. I was a big fan of the music of Steve Reich (not to everyone's taste, I will admit). He wrote a piece entitled Tehillim (aka the psalms) in Hebrew. So if I was alone in my campus apt. I would put it on and dance to it. I must have been quite a sight should anyone have seen me. But it was joyful.
If you, or anyone, is interested:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wbu0_YObi3Q&list=OLAK5uy_lCG0S4raYSd6RJe07rT2xeCbR4SgbGIN4&index=1
The text used is psalm 19:2-5
The heavens declare the glory of God, and the sky shows His handiwork. Day to day they speak, night to night they reveal knowledge. There is no speech, no words, where their voice goes unheard. Their voice has gone out to all the earth and their words to the end of the world. In the heavens He pitched a tent for the sun.
-Jack
Your post and Paul’s question has refocused me on my time of prayer. Thank you. I have a busy and fulfilling work vocation, meaningful worthwhile outside of work activities and responsibilities, what I call my carcass maintenance routine, good health, in short plenty of good stuff to do so my going aside to periods of prayer regularly as Jesus, Paul, and Peter did is easily and unconsciously forgotten.
And I need to be more regular and daily! I have the freedom and the time, but somehow . . . . .
Even though I am currently living in place about as conducive to prayer as I can imagine, I still have to wrangle with myself nearly everyday. The conversation in my head goes something like:
"I don't really want to do it today"
"Then don't. Nobody is making you"
"But my day goes so much better when I do"
"Okay, then do it. Nobody is making you do it. You can choose to just do it."
....
....
....
"Okay, I'll do it"
Nearly every day.
Thanks for this, Jack. Whenever I read your work, I feel like a spiritual translator, asking myself, “He lives in a monastery, and I live in suburbia, so what can I take away from what he does there, and do it here?”
So, I wonder, what does it mean to let go for me? For me, it can’t mean releasing myself from all attachments, because many of the attachments serve a purpose or have a meaning (work, children, etc.). So here, letting go means something else, like relaxing control, or letting go of the tendency to cling to certain emotions. In other words, it is not a total surrender; and while I am glad to let go of negative emotions, I am happy to enjoy the positive ones and even draw them out a bit – whereas in truly monastic traditions even those might be abandoned (I assume).
Looked at in this way, I can be left feeling like a second-class spiritual citizen, one who is not truly seeking the ultimate but settling for a watered-down version of spirituality, although I don’t actually believe that is the case (nor do I think that that is your point either). Still, it raises the question, Is the spiritual framework of the monk and ordinary person the same, or just overlapping yet otherwise different?
A reverse way of looking at things is to suppose that we were meant to have attachments; that as relational beings there is necessarily a separation between one person and another, and attachment of some kind is needed to bridge this gap; and that the suffering we experience from such attachments are also a part of their meaning. We may need therapy when the attachments become too painful, or pathological, but otherwise, we limp along, sometimes weeping, sometimes joyful, sometimes quiet, struggling to keep the balance between healthy attachment and the suffering it might bring.
I’m just thinking out loud here...indulging in incomplete thoughts.
Peter- These are all great questions. Come to think of it this would make a great topic for a podcast. (someday. soon?). As I started think about a response it struck me that it would be a lengthy comment. So why not just make my response into a whole new post? Which is what I intend to do. Thank you for the questions to get me started. I think Meister Eckhart, for one, has many things to say on the topic.-Jack
Funny, I was going to write a post on a similar topic soon. I’m in the middle of reading The Varieties of Spiritual Experience by Yaden and Newberg, a couple of neuroscientists who are spinning off of William James’ book The Varieties of Religious Experience.
Their book is often too reductionist for me (e.g., they think St Paul’s vision on the road to Damascus was likely due to epilepsy); still, the book is interesting in that it broadly surveys spiritual practices (Christian, Buddhist, etc.) and their measurable psychological impacts.
The reductionist tendency is a Machine tendency too…but I will save that for my eventual article.
Well since we can't (yet) do a podcast perhaps we can have a written conversation? If so you can go first since I just published this one. Let me know if that sounds interesting to you.
I will meditate on that suggestion!
Humans are meant to have interdependence, not attachments. People form attachments when they are ignorant of the interdependence that already exists. In their delusion, they are trying to form connections on top of the ones that already exist, leading to a hyper-individualism and a materialist-based culture.
Jack is there a suggested starting place for Meister Eckhart? His tracks have always been mixed in with others but I've never followed his.
Keep up the good work
JP- Eckhart is a tough one. I have wrestled with him for a good while. The best place I have found to start is his vernacular sermons. I use the collection translated by Edmund Colledge and Bernard McGinn which is part of the Classics of Western Spirituality series. But there are others.
I have taken to reading these out loud to myself as a kind of Lectio Divina. I find doing this makes it not only easier to follow but more likely to yield basic understanding as well as occasional insights.
For what it is worth, I think he is well worth wrestling with.
Thank you. -Jack
p.s. the best general introduction I have come across is "The Way of Paradox: Spiritual Life as Taught by Meister Eckhart" by Cyprian Smith. I think it gives an accessible and balanced view of his thought, with enough depth to make reading Meister Eckhart more fruitful.
I love this advice from Eckhart about loving god:
"You should love him as he is, a not-God, not-mind, not-person, not-image — even more, as he is a pure, clear One, separate from all twoness. And we should sink eternally from something to nothing into this One."
As close to Buddhist truth as I have found in Abrahamic thought. The rejection of dualistic thinking is stunning.
So glad to have found your substack, Jack.
Brian- Eckhart really is something. There is a strain in Christianity--both east and west--that stems largely from the writings of St. Dionysius the Areopagite. This tradition was more fully embraced in the east, but it is still there in the west. The Cloud of Unknowing is part of it--I think perhaps that there may have been more than one reason the Cloud author remained anonymous.
Meister Eckhart, as you may know, got himself in some hot water with the authorities over some of his more exuberant expressions, but died before anything could really be done to him. Eventually this kind of apophaticism was actually officially taken up into the west with St. John of the Cross--who referred to God as Nada, nothing--and the Carmelites.
This is where I try to situate myself, as best as I can fathom it--or not fathom it, as it were. The time is ripe for it.
Thank you for the quote.
More importantly, I am glad you are here. I hope all is well. -Jack
Part of my enjoyment of Eckhart is the fact that he did get himself into hot water.
Everything is well, and I am glad to be here.
He really was a spiritual virtuoso and easily misunderstood. Reading his sermons are exhilarating, even the times I have no idea what he is talking about. I have grappled with him for decades. I am still at it.
Having just found this substack, I will say that retiring to a monastery is delusion. Jesus' message was to help the poor, that was not all of it, but it was a critical part, and if one is not doing that, one is not doing the will of Jesus.
You do way more good by doing something like signing the Giving What We can pledge than being in a monastery. I know one Christian who has a career yet lives in a minivan because he gives most of his salary to charity. That is real spiritual development.
This stuff could be, but it needs to be grounded in actual good works. Otherwise you are not attaining perfection or getting close to God, you are just deluded. Ever questioned yourself that? How would you know whether or not you are deluded? I say if your spiritual development happens purely within you, it actually is delusion. A substack is not enough to change that: the world has too many problems before we get to those a substack might help with.
Since you are of the contemplative bent, take a page from the Sufis. They are contemplatives, yet of the world.
Apologies if you actually are doing something like what the Christian I mentioned is doing. It's not like I read the whole substack.
Maybe. Have you ever lived at a monastery? If not, how would you know?
I know that what happens in a monastery is purely internal, at least on most of them. It is not something that I see helping the needy much. Delusion feels joyful and it feels beautiful. And one does not need to go far to find the presence of God. That can be found right in the midst of the activity of the suffering world.
Do you consider monkhood superior to the state the man in the minivan is in? If so, why? Or do you believe it is not possible to compare?
I'm sorry, who are you again? I am all for conversations across disagreement, but I don't recall requesting an interview.
Given your opening gambit of accusing those who don't see things your way as being "delusional", this may not be the Substack for you. You have one of your own, it seems. The internet is vast, Carlos, and has many rooms, go forth in peace.
It's just an open comments section. The interview ends when you want it to end, which is seemingly now. But really, given the risk of delusion inherent in spirituality, it is something to question oneself on. The thing I realized is that the only way to know one is not deluding oneself with this stuff is by performing good works. It is not a narrow way, as it appears in every religion.
Carlos-
Let's recap: You popped up out of nowhere and the first thing you say is basically an insult. You proffer unsolicited spiritual guidance of the most obvious kind as if manna from heaven. And then you try to pose loaded questions that flip the framework entirely to your own.
This simply isn't how it is done...not here, anyway. Where I come from such efforts would be called rhetorical manipulation, and whether you intended it or not, I am calling it out as such.
That said, you are more than welcome to join the conversation here. I find it illuminating, given all the various perspectives that people have, if I do say so myself. Honestly, you may actually like it.
The unspoken rule--which I will speak now--is that the goal of the comment section is a honest but kind and respectful conversation, not monologues, not arrogant pronouncements from above. You have your own substack if you want to do that.
We live in utterly baffling times and I would submit that anyone who thinks they have it figured out, doesn't, and additionally are typically not very insightful.
Please join in. Otherwise, I wish you well with everything you do.
-Jack
I don't think I have it all figured out, as what I'm providing is not an entire spiritual path, just a test to distinguish the fake from the genuine, and technically also a way to turn all this stuff into something real. It's possible you had not encountered the concept of spiritual delusion before, which the Eastern Orthodox know as prelest, but it's an important thing to be aware of.
Unless you think all spirituality is authentic, asking oneself how to discern falseness from the truth is critical. The conclusion I have arrived to really is just a restatement of "faith without works is dead", but quite often a restatement is all that is needed, as the highest spiritual truths are perennial.
hi jack,
Its Ceci again, actually I have recently decided to share my full given name with you. Its Cecilia.
I know you well enough to know that you are well versed in the significance of names in the Bible. My name when traced back to its core actually means blind.
I apologize for the ridiculous disaster of a girl I have been to you, I am a gentle soul... Always have been. I knew early on I would not last long in the environment of lies and manipulation that we were speeding toward. So I taught myself to use a clinical paradox method to fortify myself for as long as I could. It worked well until the people I loved and trusted most abandoned me. Have you ever loved someone so much you'd give them anything they asked? I would have let my loved ones cut off my leg and eaten it . You cannot imagine the pain and grief I experienced when I realized they not only would not do the same for me, but actually chose to hurt me every opportunity they got. It should have destroyed me. But it didn't.
My dark night of the soul was not as complex as I told you. I was spiritually blind (dead) and I called out to Jesus when I hit bottom. And he answered. He has continued to answer my call, ever since that first night. Its why I tell people I am blessed and favored by him. I am more aware than most of just how spiritually bankrupt I am without him.
Blind is the name I am called and blind is the name I answer to.
All this Jesus stuff is real, I actually tried to pulled a Jonah when I found out. Apparently I am terrified of my own success...
Anyway, it turns out my calling is to heal and lift up others to the potential God has destined for them.
Please message me if you would like my help healing and forgiving your scars. Or just want to talk to someone who will not judge you. I can guarantee my own past is worse than your own.
I told you the monastery program was a waste of time months ago... Jus sayin lol
Just because I did, or I was? Does not mean I AM.
Beauty should shine from the inside out :)
Cecilia-
I assume your name derives then from the Latin caecus = blind, dark, obscure, etc. Though as you may know, St. Cecilia is also the patron saint of music in both the Catholic and Orthodox Churches. So there's that.
You are most welcome to be part of the discussion here. I realize there are other factors going on, but I humbly asked that you try to be *part* of the discussion and not attempt to put your own view over and above others. That is the ethos I stand by. Dissent is welcome. And I strive to be tolerant, but alas, I too have my limits. By default I am the referee and I have only so much tolerance for disruption. It is my call to determine what that is. So far, the discussion here has been fruitful. I would like to keep it that way.
Thank you for letting me know it was you through the online name change. It is helpful.
I hope you are well. -Jack
I am very well. In fact, I have been so incredibly blessed and favored by God that some days it feels like I am living in heaven on Earth. We are all responsible for our choices and that includes the views we testify to as truth. No one can force another to choose their views. We all get to choose for ourselves.
Courage of conviction when claiming those views is not intolerance. Intolerance is an unwillingness to tolerate/respect opinions different from your own. An example of this is the unwillingness to debate or discuss certain subjects with others or in some cases silence them completely through social ostracism.
I understand my persistence in trying to lend a helping hand is troublesome to you so I will leave.
Youre on your own.
In case you change your mind.
https://open.substack.com/pub/ascensionfromdarkness/p/spiritual-blindness-bible-parables?r=25fg9s&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web
Again, I wish you beautiful things. Be well. -Jack